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New Class for 2011 
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Post New Class for 2011
LAKC is excited to introduce PRD Spec Masters to our lineup for 2011. Specs:

Weight: 390lbs
Minimum age: 40 (no exceptions for weight)
Tires: Bridgestone YKC
Fule & Oil: VP-MS98L with Burris Castor or Burris Blend
Group: Until this class grows it will run with PRD Spec


The objective is to offer a class for super adults (yep, see above age minimum), at a weight that your feeble bodies can manage, and is free of us annoying 30 year olds. This is on top of using one of the lowest priced engines. We hope this class attracts and retains new, super adult drivers to the sport.

Please let us know what you think.


P.S. Jokes are tongue in cheek. All in good fun.


Last edited by Dan Rivera on Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:04 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed Oct 20, 2010 8:52 pm
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I think it will only serve to dilute numbers in each class. It will eventually be 6 in PRD Masters and 10 in Rotax Masters.


Thu Oct 21, 2010 4:25 pm
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Post pie
Using a pie chart analogy, I agree that this may change the size of one slice at the cost of another. That said, we created the class to grow the size of the pie - attract and retain new drivers. If the pie grows, we will have strong classes.


Thu Oct 21, 2010 9:35 pm
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Post Re: pie
Dan Rivera wrote:
Using a pie chart analogy, I agree that this may change the size of one slice at the cost of another.



Those of us who have been around more than a few years simply call this the "karting analogy".

Or in current terms, the "Obama analogy".


A


Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:00 am
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Bummer… I was totally happy running at 375lbs and have absolutely 100% no interest in running anything heavier than that.

As a little side story; For the just held Streets of Lancaster Grand Prix - I had been offered absolutely free use of a very quick Terry Nash KPV for the race and was registered in KPV4+ as Tri-C had aced out the PRD. Then late in the process they (begrudgingly?) added back in Spec PRD. Due mostly for not wanting to bother taking apart my kart and not wanting to add all that extra weight, 2 days before the race I switched to Spec PRD.

I don’t understand karting sometimes. Almost every sport has preferred body types… At 5' 4" I tried out for basketball in my first year in high-school, but for some reason the track coach was in on the practice, and then the two coaches came up to me and "suggested" I move to the track team. OK, smaller guys have an advantage in karting… get over it! :shock: But if people are serious about their sport they can use it as an incentive, and I’ve lost > 35lbs since I started karting. Going from 204 July 2008 - now down to 168 this morning. It looks like I’ll need to drop the last 10lbs I was hoping to achieve before next year, so I can run right at 360.

This is not good news to me. Currently I have to add 5lbs to run at 375 which is fine, and the first time I’ve ever added weight. Plus I can run with my friends. Now, I’m still going to run in SR. I’ll be at a 10lbs disadvantage once again, but I’ll be with my buddies who are all < 30, let alone 40. So, this news actually bums me for next year. I’m pissed at Tri-C for telling me how they were promoting Spec PRD and then ingloriously gave it no spot at SLGP. Now I’ll have to re-consider, or stick with Willow. Last month they added a silly ‘heavy’ class at 380, but at least I don’t have to add even 10 more lbs. And that was added just to keep a light class for one competitor who has extremely strong family ties to the track!!! :wink: She told me at SLGP she wasn’t going to race anymore as all the other Spec PRDs were running ‘heavy’ so there was no competition for her! I suggested we should all run together and just make it 370 or 375 (as Tri-c and LAKC currently have it)… then everyone is happy and she can race also.

I've been a kart owner for 2 years now, and have been a big PRD supporter since my beginning. I'm totally supportive of the Spec PRD format. At 57yo I even like the idea of running with older guys (if there are plenty of us) as a class for safety reasons, (having just been plowed into the hay bales in a straight line by a 17yo at SLGP) but the weight provisions for us older types just seem out of proportion. :?


Fri Oct 22, 2010 12:13 pm
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Post 1
Bummer Gene I was hoping to race with you.


Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:57 pm
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Post Re: pie
Andy Seesemann wrote:
Those of us who have been around more than a few years simply call this the "karting analogy".

Or in current terms, the "Obama analogy".

A


I am curious what you mean by this ?

Please explain.

8)


Fri Oct 22, 2010 8:07 pm
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Which part?

The constant dividing of the same karting pie into smaller and smaller pieces without really growing the sport, or the redistribution of wealth, but no real growth, under the guise of change?

See you guys this weekend.

A


Fri Oct 22, 2010 9:50 pm
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Post 
Gene the class Dan is talking about will be added to the existing program. the existing class will still remain. It may become a little lighter but it will still remain and they will all run together until the class is large enough to go on its own. There will be a whole new class and program that will be announced soon called the "Pilot Program" or something like that and it will be very attractive to guys like you and terry. Let me finalize it before you feel like LAKC is letting you down. There is a lot going on in the karting community and I want to make sure we get it all figured out before we announce it. Please stay tunned. See you all this weekend for a great day of racing.


Fri Oct 22, 2010 10:16 pm
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Post Racer's Perspective
I think that this situtation also needs to be looked at from a racer's perspective (not club or engine mfgr); What I don't understand the need for another 40+ YO class in this region? There are essentially two already, which are part of the Tri-C program. The EP1K Rotax Grand Masters class pulls about 20 and the HPV-4 Heavy class with about 20 on the average. Both of these classes need to be 25 but they both hold steady at 20. It's likely due to poor economy and natural turn over.

If it were a matter of survival for LAKC, then the addition of this class might be understandable but LAKC runs a good and sucessful program. LAKC doesn't need to be the "be all" and offer everything to all karters in a very limited market and further dilute the numbers in classes in So Cal.

The fundemental differences between Tri-C/EP1K Rotax Grand Masters and the new PRD Masters class are 8 year older racers and a different motor. The 8 year difference is splitting hairs if the average age of the grid is considered. With respect to power plant, an engine is an engine, as long as they are equal and cost effective, I don't care.

There is also some thinking that creating a special class for +40 YO verses +32 YO will result in podiums and better finishes, which might be true, at least intially, but what's the point of being on the podium in a class of 8 or 10? I think creating a class for +50 YO will likely attract a few new racers and not result in dilution.

Bottomline: The PRD Grand Masters class is really a commercial Trojan Horse disguised as a benifit for the karter.


Larry


Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:27 am
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Larry all really good points.
Think of it as not from the existing karter,club member or mfgr but from the new guy that wants to race in a class that is easy and affordable. A class that may offer an opportunity to grow the sport with new karters. A motor that has a low RPM and spec gearing range and a carb. that your kid can tune. I think some may look at this as some attempt to dilute the pie but we look at this as a way to offer something that is for the new guy that is not ready for the big boys. Just a different view we have is all.


Wed Oct 27, 2010 1:21 pm
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Its funny....I heard the same thing when rotax came out.... "user friendly/low cost...etc... its probably because of the rotax kart engine I have a job as a tuner!!!!! hopefully PRD have a better definition of "user friendly"...time will tell


Thu Oct 28, 2010 1:54 am
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OK I’ve been thinking about this. Of course this class is designed for people just like me. I’m 57 and been in karting for 2 years now, so it would be great not to have to compete with the kids who have been karting all their lives, and also have something to prove, including the up and coming Fernando’s and Danika's of the world.

I’m good with most of it but the weight. It’s probably a non-issue, but karting was the key for me to actually get in shape, start moving again, and so I have and I've dropped a lot. Now karting is basically saying, hey pack it back on buddy, we’ll make room for your ‘feeble’ body! *

I also get why Larry and Andy are the ones to speak up against this. At first I didn’t, because I’ve never seen them with a PRD. But I got it now. For the record, I think it would be great to run with Andy, as he has been welcoming to me as a new guy, but I can’t justify the cost of the Rotax – especially in light of the PRD - and running at 405lbs seems ludicrous.

So we were to let you know ‘what we think’ and I think the club should actually be both realistic and innovative in starting this class.

First off, for this coming year: Face it, we are running with the kids - probably all this season. Until we get 10 or so masters, we won’t be running on our own, which would be a MAIN point in having this class. Supposedly safer, with more responsible, non-invincible racers. That part sounds very good to me. (excellent that there are no senior exceptions)

So for this year / while running together, I think we should all run the same weight. IE: Keep the weight at 375, as it has been. And that way we all are equal on track.

Dan was clearly composing jokes instead of finishing off the rest of the class structure, and should have mentioned that the Masters get two teeth on the senior spec gear. That also would be eliminated this year, or while still running with the Seniors. Thus for now all PRDs would be equal on the track in gear and weight, while the masters would be scored separately obviously.

Finally, I think the club should be truly innovative. Larry’s post gave me the idea when he mentioned the 50yo +. Since the idea of the class is to promote a place to race for older guys getting into the sport. (Gee, that’s me. I started when I was 55, with essentially no prior race experience.) So, since the idea is to help with ‘feeble’ bodies, then the older we get, the more help should be given. Thus I think we should have a corresponding weight DROP. Say:

40 - 49 = 390
50 - 59 = 380
60 + = 370

This will actually support the ‘feeble body theorem’ and be an incentive for older racers to get involved. Even when they are ‘older’ - older guys they can see that they are valued as racers and will even have a weight advantage to overcome the age disadvantage we are experiencing. And there is truth to this.

Plus, If you are actually concerned for our ‘feeble’ bodies, then you should consider reducing the class weight so we don’t have those heavy arse karts to lift. These would go into effect when we race in a separate group from the seniors.

So there are some ideas. Not just the same old blah, blah, but make it an inviting place for Masters to come join in.

I appreciate the clubs effort to bring a place for us older guys to run, especially with the cheap and trusted PRD! * I’m not so fond of Dan’s ‘feeble’ joke. Dan, the ‘hint’ was when you were writing the disclaimer… it should have tipped you off to leave that bit out of this club announcement!

FWIW: The PRDs are in dire need of getting off the track with TaGs running MG Yellows. If the tags run YKCs then it should be OK to continue, but with the MGs, we get stuck behind off the pace tags but they can still out accelerate us on the straights, and even though they are slow overall, the Yellows make it near impossible to get them in the corners. Ask any of the TaG or PRD guys from SLGP about PRDs on YKCs and TaGs on Yellows running together. :shock:

Cheers! :D


Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:18 am
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The point I’m trying to make is that there are already three 32-40 YO classes in the region. Why do we need another? Sure we can split hairs about the differences between HPV4 Heavy and PRD Masters such self starting, water cooled etc but if the racer wants these features and is willing to pay for them then run Rotax class. I just don’t think the market needs another 32-40 YO class.

Why not do something different? Like Geno suggested and use the PRD motor as the basis for an age handicapped class, which might be way to encourage older lighter drivers to race with the Seniors.

Suggested starting with PRD Light and then add PRD Heavy

Spec PRD Light
Weight Handicap Structure:
(A) 16 – 30 YO Senior – 385 lbs (base gearing)
(B) 31 – 40 YO Senior - 380 lbs (base to -1 tooth gearing)
(C) 41 - 50 YO Senior – 375 lbs (base to -2 teeth gearing)
(D) 51 + YO Senior – 365 lbs (base to -3 teeth gearing)

Larry


Fri Oct 29, 2010 10:30 am
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Just to be clear, I think it is fantastic to be supporting the PRD. I have no interest in KPV which seemed old school to me when I started nor Rotax which seemed expensive and a bit elitist with the sealed engine, etc.

So Excellent with the PRD – all the fun, half the price.

I see Tri-C has Rotax Masters, TaGMasters and KPV4+. LAKC only has Rotax Masters.

So I think LAKC is right on to be supporting a PRD masters. It’s a place for us to get in with less expense, the called out gear ratio is a great idea, and we have the ever cool starter button which works most of the time.

And let’s not forget in the last Tri-C race, the PRD winner was 2.5 seconds quicker than the HPV4+ winner, and had the same lap time as the Rotax Master’s winner, so the PRD is a performance winner too.

Let’s do this and my suggestions keeps it pretty simple, especially this inaugural year…


Fri Oct 29, 2010 11:10 am
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