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UNBALANCED Run Groups 
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:35 am
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Post UNBALANCED Run Groups
I knew there was just lip service paid to the run groups... running with your own age groups and such. Chris told me last year the idea was to get the Masters to run in their own group.

Here's the counts / # of karts on track from the pre-registration:

4 - PRD Junior 1
8 - Open Shifter / Spec Honda
3 - Kid karts
7 - KPV2 / PRD Junior
9 - Junior 1
10- Spec Honda / Masters
21-Rotax Grand Masters / Rotax Senior Pilots / PRD Grand Masters / PRD Senior Pilots
10-Rotax Senior / Tag
19-PRD Senior

Last year Rotax Masters ran with 6 in their group, now we have 9 Masters.

Seniors / Pilots and Masters PRDs ran together last year. I think the PRD Pilots should run with the PRD Seniors. and the Rotax Pilots with the Rotax Seniors. Keep the age groups together like Chris had said.

This is goofy stuff man... I had a strong feeling it was going this way. Real bummer.


Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:11 pm
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Joined: Fri Oct 22, 2010 11:35 am
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Post Re: UNBALANCED Run Groups
Unreal... 21 guys in 4 different classes are going to qualify in the same 7 minutes. Nice...

It should at least be two groups. PRD/Rotax Masters in one group, PRD/Rotax Pilots in other.


Wed Feb 08, 2012 10:21 pm
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Post Re: UNBALANCED Run Groups
As a rookie to LAKC and karting, three weeks ago I was deciding between running with the PRD pilots or the PRD masters. The 2012 class rotation sheet that I looked at on the LAKC website stated that the Rotax and PRD grand masters would be running together while the Rotax and PRD pilots would be running together. Based on that, I chose the masters because I thought it would be safer and more fun to run with experienced drivers than inexperienced drivers.

I guess it didn't matter what class I chose, now.

Given this grouping, what's the purpose of offering a pilots class, anyway?


Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:57 am
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Post Re: UNBALANCED Run Groups
Geno,
Although all four classes are together for warm ups and the pre-main and main, it looks like there are two separate qualifying runs for the four classes. The PRD pilots and masters qualify at 11:25 while the Rotax pilots and masters qualify at 11:18. That should help, yes?


Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:31 am
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Post Re: UNBALANCED Run Groups
OK Chris, thanks for the info. I agree that I am rather new to this, so will defer to your logic and experience obviously. I know you have always been concerned for safety, and I've been impressed by that. I was talking about race groups of course. Originally it was said the Masters would run together. In my inexperienced head, it seems best to run the older guys all together, but if you would say the PRDs (pilots and masters) are better, than I would go with that.

I don't particularly care for mixing it with 4 different groups of which we (PRD Masters) will have the hardest time passing someone on the straights or getting passed. We have the lesser motor of the group and the most weight.

I liked the idea of running with just masters as we had talked about that as the goal. So was OK with the compromise originally proposed for this year of running PRD and Rotax masters together. Perhaps all the shifters could run together instead, to free up a run group and then split us into two groups of two instead of one group of four.

Matt, thanks for that note, yes I see it now, at least we have a more normal qualifying. Last year when we had 20 PRDs we broke the groups up in half for qualy.

See you guys this weekend.


Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:30 pm
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Post Re: UNBALANCED Run Groups
continued...

What's up with the Spec Honda guys - 4 karts and the Masters - 6 karts getting their own two qualy sessions and except for us in qualy being lumped in with 4 classes at once and 22 karts on track... like I said, perhaps the shifters with 18 karts should all run together instead of our 22 karts now!


Thu Feb 09, 2012 3:36 pm
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Post Re: UNBALANCED Run Groups
Geno wrote:
continued...

What's up with the Spec Honda guys - 4 karts and the Masters - 6 karts getting their own two qualy sessions and except for us in qualy being lumped in with 4 classes at once and 22 karts on track... like I said, perhaps the shifters with 18 karts should all run together instead of our 22 karts now!


I think you also need to take into consideration that you are looking at "pre" entries.
The club has no idea yet what the turn outs are going to be until a couple races into the year.

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Thu Feb 09, 2012 4:10 pm
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Post Re: UNBALANCED Run Groups
OK so you're saying... the shifter guys don't use the internet much, for instance to sign up for things... a bit old school I suppose! :lol:

OK, I was just out in the spa contemplating the huge mess going into turn 1, with 4 different race classes in one... and also how to get a clear lap in the short practice sessions with all those karts out at once.. ie: the biggest race group we have as of pre-reg.

Then it dawns on me, why the artificial classes... last year in PRD: Seniors, Master and Pilots all ran together. Now the PRD has the big Senior group, so it deserves to be alone. Why are ROTAXs all not running together; Senior, Master and Pilots and then let the PRD Pilots and Masters run together. That would even out the run group sizes and be very similar to last year with PRD and Rotax reverse in counts.

Then for some reason TAG was put back in, it will be interesting to see if anyone attempts to run back to back sessions in a TAG and PRD kart... but the seemingly very few TAG Guys can run with the Rotax's just as you have them.


Thu Feb 09, 2012 9:25 pm
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Post Re: UNBALANCED Run Groups
Hey Chris,

The spa has seemingly cleared my head! :P The classes I'm suggesting are basically the classes that you have done already... hardly a difference so not sure what you are referring to...

PRD Masters and PRD Pilots running together (just as you have) (12)

Rotax Masters and Rotax Pilots running together (just as you have) (10)

Now combine the lower group above, ie: the 10 Rotax karts instead of with the 12 PRDs combine them with their own like, ie: the SIX (6) Rotax seniors. So you have a run group of 16 and a run group of 12. Those are like for like, so not sure why I need to go to MyLaps. I've studied those time very much all year plus you've already set the standard as that is exactly how the PRDs ran last year Senior, Master and Pilots all together. So I'm saying the smaller Rotax group could do that this year.


Thu Feb 09, 2012 10:30 pm
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Post Re: UNBALANCED Run Groups
The Season hasnt even begun yet. Quit your whining and buy a shifter and come race with us We always make it through turn 1. Well almost always.


Fri Feb 10, 2012 9:31 pm
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Post Re: UNBALANCED Run Groups
I love the whole tension before the season starts. With the talk of groupings, timed races, podium girls!?, ignition coils, new tires! Oh and has anyone taken a look outside tonight...its looking grim! Tomorrow is gonna be an interesting day, a day long awaited! None of this will matter once the flag waves...thats the moment I have been waiting for...Gentleman see you at the track!

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Sat Feb 11, 2012 8:34 pm
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Post Re: UNBALANCED Run Groups
I belive this is a constructive and informative post, as it deals with real safety concerns we all have.

There were comments in this thread from Chris LaTorre which were deleted shortly after the crash that broke my collarbone. I found that to be an additional source of distress during this most difficult time.

Obviously I was correct in my concerns voiced in this thread. Despite the comments that I was too inexperienced to know how to setup run groups, and that the final word of the club should be adheared to by all means. (What's wrong with a discussion about safety?) Looks like I was more aware of the possible (and coming) dangers than others were, and the cavalier attitude towards those concerns ended up doing me much harm.

So why were the comments removed (right after the race) from here. And now we need to ask WHO erased them so efficiently and quickly. It's one of about 4 or 5 persons, no?

I guess most would know by now I had a major crash into a 15 year old kid on his first ever open race, who was given a special waiver by IKF at the last minute to run in our race as he was underage. And of course the putting of 4 classes together including older drivers and the least experienced drivers running at the same time. I was actually vindicated on the grid, when we had lined up already - the 4 classes all mixed together, (32 karts by far the largest run group) by qualifying times and then the panic separation of the Rotax guys from the PRDs at the last minute. Clearly it should have been how I first proposed, The MASTERS on track together, and could separate the Rotax and PRD groups. And the Pilots together doing the same.

Bummer… I'm out now… at least for months with a broken collarbone, and fortunate I did not get further injuries from flipping completely over when the kid (looked up), hit the binders in an "over-reaction"* to seeing a spun kart a ways up the road, the kid spun right in front of me in the braking area and with nowhere to go I clipped his tire, while he was facing and rolling backwards thru width of the track.

*per Jim Hall who wrote a letter to IKF to help secure the kid's waiver - and was kind enough to call me to see how I was doing.


Fri Mar 02, 2012 3:08 pm
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