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Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires 
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Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2013 1:19 pm
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Location: Torrance, CA
Post Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
It seems that unlike the Bridgestone YLC compound, the new Vega FH tread fuses with the rubber picked up from the track during the run and/or scraping (with torch/heat gun). While this probably means nothing to most classes, kid karts do not have the power to scrub off this build-up. It looks as if kid karters need to prepare to go through several sets of tires per season as we will be scraping away the good rubber with the bad. Did anyone have a different experience? Please follow link to attached images.
http://skyforceracing.com/?p=485


Tue Dec 31, 2013 2:46 am
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
Adam,
It is not that the "new" tire is picking up more rubber it is that the new FH tire from all the other karts a laying down their rubber and no matter what tire you run the same thing will happen. I would not use a torch to remove the rubber that is being picked up because we do not allow open flames but a heat gun should do the trick. This has been a common problem with kid kart tires forever. I have been in contact with the CalSpeed group and they had told be the new tires are leaving a lot more rubber on the track (aka marbles). All it takes is for a driver to get off the race surface for the shortest amount of time and they will pick up everything off the track. In your pictures I see rocks and stuff. All this is picked up when the kart exits the track and drives through the marbles. There should be NO need for any extra tire purchases if you remove the buildup rubber correctly it should have NO negative effect on the base tire. The base tire will not remove with a heat gun. If you hold a blowtorch to the tire Im sure it could overheat and melt. The tires are not designed for that extreme heat cycle.

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Tue Dec 31, 2013 8:52 am
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
The new tire IS softer and DOES pick up substantially more rubber. It's not optimum for kid karts. The SL tire is a better choice. Other classes are running them, why can't the kid kart class. This will be a problem when it gets warmer.


Wed Jan 08, 2014 1:18 pm
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
This is a follow up on this post with a resolution:
The Vega FH tires I had trouble with and submitted pictures of, were given to me as kid kart tires used only during the PRD Pan-American Crown race in October. They were originally acquired through the purchase of a complete kid kart chassis. Although they were on this kid kart when sold and they were only run at the PRD race, they actually came off a cadet kart that was run at this event. Consequently, the tread was damaged not by and during the removal of the buildup with heat or by any kid kart, but by the more powerful cadet kart prior to the buildup. :sh I have had a chance to work with another set of tires and they are no different than the Bridgestone tires in this regard. They are however softer, as mentioned by Howie.


Sun Jan 19, 2014 11:43 pm
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
Kid Kart tire build up is and always has been an issue, we have to scrape the tires.. I know that open flame is not allowed in the pit area, but can we dedicate a specific area to use a torch to scrape the tires? Maybe after the karts come off track, then to the scales, through tech., then to an area clear of any flammable materials with fire extinguishers (I'm sure a couple of us would be happy to provide the extinguishers) at the ready for the scraping (The Scraping Zone)... Heat guns make it almost impossible to scrape the tires, it would also mean an added cost for us due to the fact that not all of us have a generator to run a heat gun.
This "Scraping Zone" would be a great help for all of us Kid Kart parents/tech's. and I'm pretty sure that the Fire Marshall's would approve such an area...
Any thoughts??
Thank you, Dave.


Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:16 am
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
Dave I will forward this request to the speedway, but it has been our experience that things are never just that easy when you are dealing with very large corporations. I'm afraid that the Fire Marshall will require drawings to be submitted and will need to go through the permit process.

The use of a heat gun has never been a problem in the past. If you guys all get together and provide a generator I'm sure we can find a central location for a official scraping zone. Its the open fires that are going to be hard to get passed.

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Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:28 am
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
Although I have a generator and have used a heat gun, I still think that scraping with a torch is way faster with superior results. I have been told by track officials that the Vega tires are leaving more deposit on the track than the Bridgestones, so it is likely that we will have even greater buildup on the kid kart tires. I think the PRD race was a good example of what to expect. I am hoping that a designated area can be established for scraping the tires with a torch.


Tue Jan 21, 2014 9:55 am
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
Adam like I have stated before. It's is not up to LAKC this subject has a higher power. We will do our best.
Chris

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Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:05 am
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
The harder of the two Vega tires being run at LAKC is a better choice for the kid kart class. I can't understand why Kid karts need a softer tire than The Jr1 Comer and PRD pilot class. Kid kart parents please ask LAKC to change the rule.


Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:17 pm
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
The tire will not change for the 2014 season. If in 2015 we see a problem with the current tire that is comparable to what has been run for the past 10 years we can talk with Vega about options but we see no reason to change what has worked in the past. We race in 18 days and the rules require 30 days notice of change. We will not be making any changes.

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Tue Jan 21, 2014 6:25 pm
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
No doubt about it, rubber build up on the Vega FH is a concern in the Kid Kart class. The Vega is a great tire and I think LAKC made a good decision in adopting it; however, it is not an ideal choice for the Kids. A little background information will go a long way in clarifying the situation.

These karts were not designed to run on a high grip 4.5 sized tire. In Europe, both the Kids and the Cadets run on a narrower tire and the chassis work much better since that is what they were designed to run on. Howie Idelson put a set of the Europe spec Vegas on Dane’s kart and ran some tests at CalSpeed last fall with the help of Jerry Henderson. What they found was that rubber build up was not a major problem and, more importantly, the chassis came alive and worked much better. We all know how horribly over-stuck the Kids are and the European tires do a much better job of providing the right driving experience and preparing the kids as they move up to the Cadet classes. I am sure that both Howie and Jerry will be glad to share their test results with any interested Kid Kart parents.

I was made aware of the test results in the fall of last year and, since I was a LAKC board member at the time, I lobbied hard to get the euro spec tire approved but to no avail. It seemed like a no-brainer since everybody was going to have to make a tire change anyway. RLV, the west coast Vega distributor, had already placed their full container order with Vega. There was no way to get the new tires here at reasonable cost. Going with the SL-3 tire as a half-way measure also would not work since RLV only brought in enough to support a number of limited classes.

Both RLV the Vega west coast distributor and T S Racing who is the importer will support LAKC if they want to go with the euro spec tire. They are in business and need a commitment with plenty of notice so this is something that needs to be worked out well in advance. LAKC has shown real leadership in introducing the Honda engine for the kids. Let’s hope they can do it again and make a really positive change in tire situation and get the USA on the European standard which is what these chassis were designed for.

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Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:26 pm
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
We are glad to announce that we will be able to provide a Scraping Zone for kid kart drivers that will allow open flames.
Rules are follows:
1. two fire extinguishers must be present at all times to be provided by who ever is using the area.
2. no children are allowed in the open flame scraping zone.
3. no open fuel is allowed in the scraping zone.
4. all rubber waste must be properly disposed of in a trash can at the end of the day.
5. LAKC will provide the location next to the post tech area.

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Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:39 pm
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
Greg,
What is the european tire that was tested?


Mon Jan 27, 2014 11:57 pm
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
AWESOME!!

Thank you Chris for going to bat for us on the "SCRAPING ZONE", this will be very helpful for us.. Also I would like to thank Mike Smith and any body else that helped provide this for us..

Thanks again, Dave.


Tue Jan 28, 2014 9:57 am
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Post Re: Rubber Build-up on Vega FH Kid Kart Tires
HI Greg,
I would be interested in the tires if we could get ALL of the Honda Kid Kart class to participate.

Thanks, Dave.


Tue Jan 28, 2014 10:03 am
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